GUEST ARTICLE
This might hack a lot of you off, but at least think about it. I think it has merit-Jim ( my article in a day or two ).
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I laugh at all the posts from individuals who boast, that they will be the baddest mamba-jamba in the forest, in the streets, or hunkered down in their secret bunker watching for invading hordes...because they are prepped, ready, armed, and will take no prisoners, WSHTF!
What a bunch of malarky!
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If you watch the daily news, both local, and national, you will see stories everyday where some unfortunate soul has gone through some tragedy. Whether it be a house or apartment fire, a car accident, bridge collapse, building evacuatations due to gas leaks or something else, or whatever, they lose all abilty to control their emotions...especially if they know the cameras are on them, and if anyone in an official capasity is there...
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The tears, blubbering, swooning, and screaming are the standard reactions, not some cold, callus, Dirty Harry type standing there amidst the mayhem, cooly walking out of the dust and debris like it is all a days work! Even police panic in real events, and they are trained not too!
The Twin Towers collapse was another example of where people paniced, for the were running and screaming, waving their arms in the air, as their world comes crashing down on them. The shock in the civilians eyes was the same look that military men have, who just went through a massive fire fight, and survived!
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People who get into a severe car accident, and survive with bumps and bruises, will sit at the curb side, shaking and trembling, partly in shock, as they watch the flurry of responder actions take place, and see their vehicle is a wrecked hulk. Their emotional abilty to just blow the whole thing off, is not possible...
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This is the world we all live in today! Like it our not. It is the culmination of generational efforts of the past, that has brought us the normalcy, the peace, and the unthreatened day to day existance nearly all of us live in the modern world.
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Americans are not Europeans, especially the Europeans who have lived through WW2, and the civil unrest throughout much of that continent over the last 50+ years. Americans have never had a complete over throw of their government, such as some of Europes peoples have had.. We have lived in an islolated existance without threats to our daily lives or cities for over 200 years...and that is the problem! We are not battle hardened, emotionless, hard scrap survivors of war zones, coups, death squad patrols, ethic cleansings or the like. We are pretty much a bunch of marshmallow soft, take it all for granted, it can't happen here, the government will protect me, selfish wusses! Like it or not, that is the truth! This isn't the pioneering days of the old west and it's hard tack life style, it is a modern life in a paradigm of living easy in comfort. *
We all live like this, like it or not! I don't care if you occasionally go out and bag a deer during hunting season, and stay with a group of beer swilling, beans and bacon gobbling, unshaven, foul joke telling, buddies....it still isn't the same thing as living in the wilderness without all the modern day convienances backing your escapade up. You are not Daniel Boone, or Davy Crocket! You are not roughing it! Your are modern day camping, and your life isn't under threat from hostile Indians, or other hostilities...Is isn't a war zone either.
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So what happens when, all these self professing, big plans of action, gunned up, local yolkels are really faced with a senario where folks are dying by the thousands daily, and gun fire and the smell of cordite fills the air near their bunkers? What happens when they tune in a radio, and hear of massive killings and arrests as Federal goon squads clear urban areas of resistors and SURVIVALISTS? What happens when they see some of their own family die, or taken away to barbed wire hotels?
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I'll tell you what they'll do, and how they will react; They'll shit their pants, and piss themselves is what they will do! They won't be John Rambo, singularly taking out platoons of well trained mercenaries with just his big bad knife or his super bad compound bow!
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No, the terrified to death people will trying to get out of town, in droves, screaming and clawing to get away from the threats. Chaos will ensue. Nobody will be thinking about grabbing the Henry 44, and saddling up and forming a posse!
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No one who says he will be in the fight, and defending his retreat from all comers has any idea of what the hell he is talking about. He'll be so rattled and afraid of being killed, or captured, that he wouldn't even be able to steadily aim and fire his assault weapon!
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Americans civilians are not soldiers, with battle experience. They are modern paradigm civilians period. Not John or Sarah Conner battling the Terminator cyborgs....Not the farmers of Colonial America who took on the Red Coats with Brown Bess Muskets....
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So, if and when anything like the fabled " The End Of The World As We Know It", or "When Shit Hit's The Fan" , senarios or "End Times" happens; NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE is going to go Segal's/Casey Ryback and take on the bad guys...
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American civilians, gunned up or not, are no match for any modern military force. Just wait untill any bunker hunkering civilian survivalist with a semi auto M-15 faces the wrath of a Cobra gun ship with a mini gun! I am sick of the bullshit being posted by arm chair wannabe's,with delusions of steel nerved granure! Trust me, survivalist wannabe's aren't going to fan their .38 special with spectacular hip shots, like Roy Rogers, and kill all the guys in black hats! All the supposed online SURVIVAL web sites do, is sell wholesale crazy to any and all who'll buy into their online posturing crap...they aren't helping anything! Like it or not!
R.ANDRE
26 comments:
Lets see where to begin with that one. First of all there are a whole lot more vets out there then you would think. 19 and 20 year old kids who have been fighting for a significant portion of their adult lives. On the other side of the age spectrum there are still plenty of WWII and Korea vets who have a well oiled Garand in the closet who can't run as fast as they used to be able to but can still shoot just fine.
Next what exactly is an M15? After that Roy Rogers probably would have used a .45 long colt or some other cartridge of that era.
Oh well,,we're just are doing the best we can,,
Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.
--Thomas Szasz
This did just happen in Georgia.
The Georgian army launched attacks into South Ossetia and the people stampeded into Russia by the thousands. It is simply human nature to remove ourselves from danger. We will move to a perceived area of safety.
Jim, could you please edit for spelling - at least. Not to mention sentence structure, paragraphing, and, GRAMMAR. That was incredibly hard to read.
http://www.navoine.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=551#551
thats why you get the hell out asap
I liked what theotherryan had to say. I agree that some of the fools out there that think they are bad, will in reality soil their pants when the shooting starts. They are just loud mouths.
But as theotherryan amply puts it, a lot of us combat veterans out there. I sure don't want to go up against a well armed military unit. But short of that the local yokels don't scare me either. I'd prefer to avoid any violence, but as a combat vet I don't fear it either. Been there done that....
This is crazy defeatist talk. Those untested green recruits turn into battle-hardened vets after the first engagement and subsequent change of garments.
A lot of people saw their very first action at Normandy.
with all due respect, i don't think there are many folks out there intending to take on helicopter gunships with their moisin-nagants. partisan resistance against a well organized, well supplied military force is a completely different exercise than discouraging the occasional "mutant zombie biker" or the "golden horde." and yes, there are a lot of vets out there from WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, Somalia, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.
I agree with the poster. A lot of Americans been watching way too much shoot 'em up television.
Cowboy's pants are going to be seriously messed up come time when they have to deal with the manure flying on their turf.
My grandfather's father did fight and then fled with his family when seriously outnumbered and under attack in Tulsa, OK in the twenties.
They said thousands died, women and children indiscriminately killed and buried in mass graves. Homes and business were set afire, schools and churches gutted and destroyed. The two hospitals in the neighborhood were also burned out and destroyed. Bombs where even dropped.
Those who didn't flee the city were rounded up and placed in internment camps--it took months for some to get out of them.
A few Americans have dealt with war in our cities, and the real deal of rampaging, murderous mobs.
It has only happened in the rest of your fertile imaginations.
My grandpa always said to take to the woods when the folks start their rampaging and looting. He fought in WW2, but said there's always too many to stand and fight against--and fighting back enrages them and makes them more murderous. Best to flee and rebuild, he advised.
I'd say when they come to get you, they'll be well-armed, trained military squadrons. The smart ones will take their families and get out of their way.
There are a lot of trained vets out there. There are a lot of other guys that spend a lot of their time and money getting the best training that they can. Then there are the guys who will just step up to the plate and do what they have to do to protect themselves and their families. The reality is that a big part of a major TEOTWAWKI event will be widespread death and devastation. People are gonna die. It's your job to try to stay out of their way until you're forced to defend yourself. Sometimes trouble finds you whether you like it or not.
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/
Looks like there may be a few 3%'s out here yet.
wildflower, the stalinist "liberals" want to dis-arm all of us. they're the ones who tell us we're all the same. the tulsa massacre is exactly why everyone should be prepped and armed. most especially sensitive law abiding persons such as yourself.
black folks are going to have it especially tough because by "keepin it real" many will be mistaken for members of the golden horde. tulsa was perpurtrated by your grandpas good protestant neighbors, from across town. the same mindset which conducted the lynchings up this way. (he gave you good advice, by the way)some people will have a much more difficult time finding a good BOL just because of how they look.
i carry wipes and a change of underwear in my BOB, and should i survive that first cobra minigun action, i may be more resentful and determined than ever.
...irishdutchuncle
Citizens can become battle hardened vets if they survive the initial fighting. There is a winnowing out process. After fighting in the streets and forests for a couple of years local populations become very skilled in the art. Happens all the time throughout the world. Think Vietnam, the Boer War, and many others including some right now.
I think this is the post that is probably going to convince me to not come back to read Bison any more. Drivel.
Massive warfare is a fratricidal endeavor of the elite power brokers.
Individuals I agree CANNOT stand in the face of large military units...
What you are not taking into account is the FACT that the resentful civilian population ALSO learns and becomes "battle hardened" as you can see in Iraq and Afghanistan where our forces are now coming against civilian forces equally accustomed to the invasion and occupation...
The occupiers and suppressors ALWAYS loose UNLESS they are willing to commit genocide...
They are getting practice in Iraq on how to commit genocide now, but when over here MOST will have a problem shooting someone's grandmother who speaks a familiar language and is begging in the name of a familiar god! Many will turn or sequester themselves into deep depression and ineffectiveness.
irishdutchuncle muses further...
most of the europeans alive today are probably less battle hardened than many americans. as consumers they can't run with us. we're the big dogs, they get back onto their porches. 9/11 opened many eyes in this country. our leaders advised us to prepare. (did they know about some things that are coming that we should be prepared for?)
if europeans are so superior, they would have invented the american system, over there.
our leaders told us to prepare as indiviguals. that is the last vestige of our liberty. europeans have been content to be dependant soccer mommies for years.
we bought plenty of duct tape and plastic, with which to shelter in place. those of us who didn't look deeper into the question stand a chance of suffocation in place. then the authorities can wrap up all the bodies in our own plastic for a more sanitary disposal.
over here we use smokeless powder. cordite is a brit thing.
Your underestimation and utter contempt for your fellow Americans, is blatantly obvious, but actually serves a valuable purpose.
If, God forbid, I ever have to defend my family in a TEOTWAWKI. I hope my opponents underestimate me as much as you underestimate everyone else!
In any disasterous situation there are those who cope and those who don't. I'm sure you would be surprised by how many of us would be able to cope with a TEOTWAWKI situation.
You are obviously of the same view shared amongst San Fransiscans and Manhattanites; all of the rest of us in the "flyover zone" are a bunch of stupid, crack addicted schlubs!!
All I can say, is that mindset could prove to be dangerous in a TEOTWAWKI situation. Maybe you should give it some more thought.
By the way, I'm a combat vet and a long serving police officer. So, a TEOTWAKI would not be my first dance, so to speak.
My biggest worry is surving the initial lunacy and being able to get home to protect my family...
Rick
Rick and the like have been watching too many DIE HARD movies.
Good luck with that scenario.
Folks should be ready for all contingencies though. I just think as much energy should be put into practical realistic survival preps than getting ready to act out macho movie fantasies.
You can't eat your excess commando guns that would blow a deer (or a more likely target, a squirrel) to smithereens and ammo. A good hunting rifle can help you eat and take out those foolish burglaring teenagers.
A slower, uneven collapse is more likely than an all out end of the world event.
BIGBill says: Wildflower makes an excellent point about having only combat arms (M-16, AK-47, etc). I have long been an advocate of everybody having a very good .22 and practicing. Mr ANDRE, however, I cannot agree with. This nation may be populated by a majority of pants-pooping simpering fraidy-cats and yes there are very many blow-hards among us, but as many point out there are also many vets who are trained to use weapons and many of them will. In a gradual slide into the night scenario, it behooves us to be prepared now, as the slide has already begun. Wasn't Andre the name of Benedict Arnold's contact with the enemy?
Put me down as another who feels that this article is complete garbage. Yes, there are a few valid points but the rest of it is total crap.
I am curious if the author's day job is for the govt in some capacity. I'd almost lean towards the part of FEMA that prepares for treating the US as occupied territory, complete with concentration camps et al.
This makes me wonder if I should continue to spend a few, irreplaceable, minutes of my life every so often here.
Steelheart
Actually, the author is fairly spot on. I've been shot, been the victim of a seriously heavy armed robbery and a few other "social events" that left me completely shook up for an unreasonable while afterwards. You simply don't know what you're talking about if you think you can keep a cool head or a steady hand in the midst of this stuff. You might get lucky and manage to stay alive when *really* bad things are going down, but your body operates independently of your mind, filling your bloodstream with adreneline, a very powerful drug that can make you do completely unexpected things, no matter how much internal rehearsing you do about projected situations.
Train as much as you can so things can happen out of habit, but don't be surprised if you freeze up, turn tail and run or even pull an aggressive move that's completely suicidal. You simply can't predict your reaction when the primitive part of your brain takes over in response to extreme fear (which is gonna happen, particularly if shooting starts).
Regards,
Hawaiian K.
Once again, Hawaiian K. sums it up pretty well. The guest article is certainly consistent with my own experience of human nature.
However, human beings are complex. We come up with the dangest acts of courage and resolve when least expected and we can catch on pretty fast.
Still, it's not normally natural to be brave and resolute. Our "coward" instincts have served us well in our pursuit of survival. The poster has it mostly right. There's the old story of the guy riding a horse on a narrow canyon road with a sheer drop on one side and no where to go on the otherside. Suddenly, the rider and the horse confront a mountain lion right in front of them. There is no way to turn around. The rider decides to be brave and face down the lion. The horse jumps off the path taking the rider with him down into a certain death. The horse, of course, represents our unconscious. It may have other ideas than our plans.
With a significant number of inner city youth possessing all of the symptoms of combat zone induced post-traumatic stress by the age of 18, I think we might not be the rampant sheep that the author might believe. What does it take to choose fight over flight? I find that it's entirely individual.
I have to agree with Hawaiian K, you don't know how you'll react.
In my younger day I used to do a bit of spear fishing. I was absolutely sure if/when I ran into a shark I'd be cool, calm and fascinated, taking the time to enjoy the experience. As it turns out, I finally did run into an aggressive shark and it scared the ever loving poo out of me. I was amazed at just how strong my will to survive was.
In my later years I figured I was older and wiser and knew of my survival instincts. Unfortunately my life experiences have brought me into close contact with a rough gang of inner city crack dealers. Without going into too much detail, I was put into a situation where, in order to retrieve my stolen merchandise, I barged right into their location. I'm no young pup anymore, and there were maybe 15 of these young thugs, but they didn't fuck with me in the least and handed back over my property ( a car). After is was all done and over I couldn't believe I had done what I'd done and was still alive to tell about it. As much as I tell myself it's in my best interest to avoid these confrontations at all cost, I've been force into it a number of times and I seem to go right at them. I'm actually quite concerned this is going to get me killed but something just takes over.
Anyway, to make a long reply longer, one never really knows how they will react in a situation.
I think what the author is trying to get to is that nobody knows exactly how they'll perform in a situation until faced with that situation. Training can help, but even under the harshest training conditions, they're still just that. Training conditions.
I disagree however, with the characterization of Americans as "marshmallows" which somehow makes us less of a threat? Even the toughest, most battle-hardened veteran, can be felled by a single, humble, marshmallow if he chokes on it. Just sayin'.
Now, take a bunch of marshmallows add a generous sprinkling of 2nd Amendment, and now you've got a recipe for wholesale dietary danger for anyone trying to consume them.
All this marshmallow talk has made me hungry. Now I gotta' remove the bayonet from my SKS, so I can make me a PB & fluff sammich.
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