Wednesday, September 17, 2008

guest article

GUEST ARTICLE
REPRINTED WITH PERMISSION FROM THE LMI MAGAZINE - theindependentamerican.freeyellow.com
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Lee Load Master Reloading Press - A Load of SOMETHING Alright!reviewed by Douglas P. BellFor quite some time now I have been meaning to write a review of the LEE LOAD MASTER reloading press vs. the DILLON 550 reloading press. This would not be a fair comparison however, for a variety of reasons, so I never did it. First off, the Lee Load Master was bought brand new. The Dillon was bought used, and not only that, it started life as a 450 and thirty years or so ago the original owner converted it to a 550 by shipping it back to the Dillon factory to be upgraded. A brand new, straight from the factory reloading press being compared to an used one that is quite a number of years old and not even in it's orginal condition, not fair by any means, especially as the Dillon works, so we will review the Lee Load Master reloading press by itself, as is.According to the Lee advert, the Load Master is "A massive press with advanced features. The ram is 1 3/4" in diameter. Stroke and clearance sufficient for the largest magnum rifle cases, loads rifle and pistol rounds with equal ease. Load progressively or singly without spilled powder or components."
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The Lee Load Master comes from the factory in at least eight pistol cartridges with carbide dies, deluxe auto-disk powder measure and case feeder, and four rifle cartridges with Pace Setter dies, Perfect Powder Measure, universal charge die and case inserter (no case feeder). Also available from the factory are eighteen shell plates, large and small primer feeders, spare five hole turrets and primer explosion shield.So much for the factory hype. What the "advanced features" are is unknown. The ram is hollow and the primers fall into it and are removed when a small sliding door on the bottom of the ram is slid out of the way so they can fall out the bottom. As far as I can tell, it does load rifle and pistol rounds with equal ease, which is to say it doesn't work at all well for either, but more on that later.While the press is advertized as "massive", it really isn't very heavy. This is due to the ram being hollow and the press being made of some sort of pot metal. I'm sure the factory prefers "aluminum alloy" or some other fancy name for pot metal, but here at the LMI, we are into telling the truth, not feeding you a load of something. This pot metal frame is fine, as long as everything else works correctly and is strong enough, and a properly designed "O" frame press can resize just about any case you'd want to fire from the shoulder when made from cheap pot metal without breaking.
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Lee designed the lever linkage to break before the press does, so you can't over stress the frame. The pot metal base, where you put the bolts to bolt the fame to the bench seem to break on the smaller presses fairly regularly however, so be warned. In the book "Modern Reloading 2nd ed." by Richard Lee (Lee Precision, 2003, 719 pages, 5 9/16"x8 5/8", which is highly recommended by the staff here at the LMI as one of the three best reloading manuals currently available, inspite of a number of factual errors. For example, on page 15, the .45 ACP is listed as being introduced in 1911, the correct date is 1905. The other problems are that the claims that Lee equipment is the best available, which much of it actually is, and the two year guarantee and satisfation or your money back, page 26, which is a pack of lies.) it is stated the Lee Load Master was introduced in 1992 and called it "the finest progressive press of all time" and "a tool anyone would be proud to own...indexing is lightening fast and silky smooth". All lies.
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They also admit the press didn't work right when introduced and changed this and replaced that and upgraded the presses as they were returned to the factory to be repaired. Mine has been returned to the factory repeatedly and not only did they refuse to repair or replace it under the two year warrenty, they claimed the satisfaction or your money back guarantee didn't apply. So much much for Lee customer service!Being young and believing the gun rag hype, both problems I've gotten over quickly, I bought a Lee Load Master reloading press as my first progresive press, after all, satisfaction or your money back, two year warranty! What could go wrong? The box came and I carefully read the instructions, and eagerly bolted the press to my reloading bench and started to reload. That is I TRIED to reload. The indexing, far from being "lightening fast and silky smooth" was in fact slow, clunky and rough as a wash board, that is when it worked at all. The primer feed was worthless, with many primers being seated sideways, upside down or not feeding at all.
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Finally the press locked up and had to be taken apart to be put back in working order every few rounds. After three days of aggravation and struggle, and possibly 100 rounds of pistol ammunition loaded, the plastic primer feed parts failed completely. I boxed the press up and sent it back to Lee requesting they replace the press or give me my money back after only four days of ownership.Shortly after that, a box arrived on my door step, the Lee Load Master with a letter stating they were refusing to replace the defective press or refund my money, but the press had been "repaired". I then bolted the press back down and tried it again. Same thing, rough as a cob indexing, when it indexed at all, primers seated upside down, sideways or not at all, the press seizing up and having to be taken apart to get it working, and after three days and possibly 100 rounds of ammunition loaded, total failure of the primer feed parts. Back to Lee, "replace the press or refund my money!" Back to me "We refuse to replace the Lee Load Master press, or refund your money, but it has been 'repaired'."
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Again rough as a cob indexing, locks up, total failure of parts, returned to Lee. Lee refusing to honor their warranty, returns press. Repeat. Locks up, total fairure of parts, returned to Lee. At least once Lee returned the Load Master press STILL seized up and all broken installed, just as it had been returned to the factory. After the first two years of returning the press to Lee monthly, or more often, they said it was no longer under warranty, which they had refused to honor anyway, and the problem was the ram was warped due to being cooled too fast after heat treating, but they would now, after two years of refusing to honor their so called warranty, repair or replace the Lee Load Master press if I paid another 50% of retail to have it fixed. They would not repair, replace or refund my money when the Load Master was returned to the factory 20 some times under warranty, but then admitted that the problem was their fault, but now wanted ANOTHER 50% of retail to fix it after refusing to do so under their two year warranty and waiting until the worthless warranty expires to try to extort more money from me to again "repair" the press! Wonderful.
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The case inserter is another part of the Lee Load Master that never worked, and as far as I have been able to tell, has never worked, ever, for anyone. Oh it sometimes could be made to work, sort of, kind of, generally, if you were lucky and careful, but, and I'm serious here, to do so requires a STP Oil Treatment drip be rigged to lubricate the case inserter. One magazine, having the same problems and "repair" service that I did, was able to get the case inserter to work, sort of, generally, not every time however, by rigging a STP Oil Treatment drip, but concluded it wasn't worth the trouble to do so.Not content to let well enough alone, current owners of new Load Masters were contacted to see if quality was improved. It hasn't. One of the very few owners who admitted he liked the Lee Load Master said it was a "ride 'em and wrench 'em press and needs constant tinkering and adjusting to work.
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This is not a press for someone who just wants to sit down and reload", but he went on to say he enjoyed "messing with the Lee Load Master press and trying to get it to work" as having a properly, and possibly THE only, working Lee Load Master press had become something of a hobby for him that was turning into an obsession. The rest of the Lee Load Master owners (or more accurately FORMER owners) reported problems the same as I had and the great majority had dumped the Lee Load Master in favor of some sort of Dillon progressive press and were very happy with the Dillon presses they bought. The bottom line? The Lee Load Master press I bought was a total POS. The factory refused to repair, replace or refund my money after the press had been returned near weekly to the factory in the first three months and constantly in the first two years, after which they washed their hands of the worthless press. From all reports, the Lee Load Master is still junk and if my experience in trying to get the Lee Load Master press I bought fixed is any indication, Lee customer service is as bad as Charles Daly or Jonathon Arthur Ciener. Do NOT buy a Lee Load Master!
END
( I inserted breaks at random-Jim. This was merely to help with reading. Sometimes the original breaks stay intact, sometimes not. And I was in a hurry so I couldn't do a better job of it. So any fault on that account is mine )

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

I did not know that any person can rearm a cartridge.
I, as it is, do not feel safe with people owning guns. I think they should be abolish. Taking away from any body but the police and our armed forces.
Hunting is unnessesary, we have enough domestic animals to be killing any other animal.
If you want an assault weapon, join the armed forces and work for peace. ammo and guns should have excesse taxes to compensate for victims of armed violence. Special insurance should be charge before a weapon is sold. Backgrounds checks should be one year, before a weapon is released to the custumer.
A psychological background whith monthy sessions of one year should be required in order to obtain a license to purchase.
Only one weapon per family or household should be license.
Better yet only one weapon per an entire block should be license.
There is no need to have guns. Sligshots will suffice for hunting if really needy.
Increase insurance cost to gun manufacturers and gun purchasers. Liability insurance per one gun owners should be one million dollars per accident or use of gun.
Ammunition should be ten dollars a bullet to help compensate for crime victims ar accident victims.

More to come.

Anonymous said...

YES!!!!!

What we newed is barak oboma, he will put an end to this nonsense of gun ownership.

www. wikipedia.or/wiki/barrack_obama

As is it written Barrack Hussein Obama will eliminate all this nonsense with guns.

Eliminate in oits entirity gun ownership.

He's got my vote on that one.

He will hire enough minorities on the police forces to end all this crime wave... end all the profiling .... stop victimizing minorities ...stop blaming minorities for all the crimes....


Vote for him ..End this trend...We need change...We need Love....
We need to become one people.... End all this etnic purity bullcrap....

Anonymous said...

How do these 2 comments relate to the article being discussed here? This person needs to preach to his/her liberal listeners as obviously he/she should not be reading survival blogs. Anyway back to the subject under discussion. I too at one time bought a LEE LOADER, What a piece of crap! It finally broke & I threw it away. I didn't even waste time trying to get it repaired or get my money back. Be "warned" do get tempted to buy one because they are cheap, you will only be disappointed and probably as the author and I did, loose your money to boot.

Anonymous said...

the only reloading equipment needed should be in a form of a church.

All these equipments should be banned .Do not produce them . they are made to hurt.

I'm glad that they dont work.

Use your monies to help promote peace .....

Marine 83 said...

Russina trolls?

Marine 83 said...

Darn beers. I meant Russian trolls?

Anonymous said...

and then cars..yeah!
the number one killers..keep em out of the hands of common people...pyschological profiling, by obamas minions, and a tax on gas to help those injured in accidents

Anonymous said...

Check out the loadmaster vids on youtube - cool but real fiddly to setup

Anonymous said...

Not having guns works great if you want to be on the wrong end of, say genocide. Unarmed people can't effectively defend themselves. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot etc.

On a milder note, banning guns has done wonders for Great Britain and Australia. Just take a look at their sky-rocketing crime rates.

I'd suspect that the first poster is the one who needs monthly psychiatric evals for a minimum of a year.

And a last question for some of the previous posters (aka anonymous trolls) here. Are you willing to put a sign on the front door or your house or on your car(s) saying that you don't own any guns and that you believe the govt. will protect you?

And a comment on reloading equipment. Dillion got their rep by being very good at what they do. The only Lee press I've debated is their cast iron single stage and that would be used to learn on.

Steelheart

Anonymous said...

Don't feed the trolls, if you starve them for attention that will start talking to themselves then they will get board and go away

Bitmap said...

I thought everyone knew Lee presses are junk. The dies that they advertise as being easy to adjust without tools also adjust themselves as you try to reload.

Staying Alive said...

This was purportedly a survival site. But it looks like suicidal people are coming to the fore.

I suppose we will get the job of burying them when they meet their disasterous end.

Michael

Anonymous said...

Fact is, you have to have the ability to defend your freedoms. And that means every responsible citizen should be required to have a firearm and know how to use it. Those who don't should have a hefty tax imposed because they are relying upon others to do it for them.

SurvivalTopics.com said...

Yeah, what the guy above me said (that was me).

TMM said...

I use the Lee Hand Press talked about by Jim in some early blog posts....

is it crude? Yes. Is it slow? Yes. Is it possible to mess up? Yes, especially if you don't pay attention. Can you learn about reloading with it? Yes.

Does it work? Yes.

The only issue I have ever had with the hand loader is where I did not lube the case properly and it got stuck in the sizing die, but that could happen to any press.


If I were to move up to a progressive loader though, I probably would not go with Lee.

blueduck said...

I prefer single stage presses plural and set my own line up.... yes it takes more room on the bench or wall, but it works for me.

I never had a lee progressive, but i have a few of the lee loadall hand loaders for single rounds, i particualrly like the shotgun roll crimp for remaking my "special" loads of flechettes and guillotine rounds.

William
North Central E-da-how

Anonymous said...

I have been using an RCBS Rockchucker since 1974. Oh boy in 41 days all the free targets you want will be available. Just pull down the campaign signs after the election........merlin

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