GUEST ARTICLE
Survival Ammo
If ammo gets hard to come by, what will happen? We can cast bullets, even use black powder, but WHAT will you do for primers? I know that they can be made, but wouldn't it be easier to put some away now for the future? They are reasonably priced too. If you mail order them, go in with other people to get a group guy to offset the hazmat $22.50 extra charge or buy them locally.
I CHALLENGE every patriot to put away AT LEAST 1000 primers (More is Better) for what you shoot (Primers cost about $30 per 1000). Even if you don’t have reloading equipment there will be people that do. Put them in a ziplock, throw some desicant in there, put the bag into an ammo box and they will keep for the next 40 years or more. We might have to hand these down to our grandchildren. Folks, we may REALLY NEED these in the future. If not, that means that you can have your brass reloaded on the cheap. There are only a few basic types.
Small Pistol
Large Pistol
Small Rifle
Large Rifle
There are magnum versions too, but these are the basics. Do an internet search as to what your ammo uses and get the right type for what you shoot. Brand really isn’t all that important, although many people have their favorites. Mostly the idea is that they start the process that makes it go BANG!
Stock up on wheel weights. If you want to be sly, tell the tire guys that you are wanting to make fishing sinkers. Offer to sweep their shop or something else for weights if you have more time than money. Barter is good. Even if you don’t cast bullets or reload, there are lots us that do and we need the materials to do it. The weakest links are the primers and the casings, so stock up.
Pick up every casing that you can every time you go shooting. Ask the range workers if you can buy or barter for brass. Even if you don’t shoot that caliber there are those of us who do. Properly stored, brass will last more than our lifetime, and can be reloaded from 3 to 20 times each. There are people still reloading brass they have been shooting since the 1970’s. Not too bad for longevity. Keep the .22 brass too, it can be converted to .223 bullets, but that is for a different post. Berdan primed cases can be converted to boxer. Steel cases can be reloaded, as can aluminum. .223’s that have been damaged on the shoulder or the bent at the mouth can be converted to 7.62 x 25. .308s with the same problems can be made into .45s. There are many uses for spent casings, so keep them all.
We need to prepare for the fight of our lives, so I urge you to aquire these items ASAP. Find out who reloads in your area, and if they don’t have dies for your caliber, you can always buy the dies and put them away for yourself. Most are pretty generic and use 7/8-14 threads, and will work in most modern presses. Many dies are under $35 to reload a caliber. The presses are much like guns, lots of people have them, but don’t have that many supplies to keep them running. The cast iron presses make dandy door stops without the parts to crank out ammo.
The .303 British, 7.62x54R, and 7.62x39 all use the same diameter projectile of .311 - .312, while the .308 and .3006 use a .308. That means that Jim’s .303 can be reloaded with a bargain surplus bullet ( http://www.southernammo.com/products/products.htm#components )for $76 per 1000. (A real deal) These are military pulls that have STEEL in them (Read Poor man’s armor piercing ammo) 147 gn. Copper washed steel jacket. Someone tested this and put a Kevlar sample in front of a 12” diameter tree. The round went through the Kevlar ……and then….through the entire tree!
Cost wise, to reload the .303, even if it is Berdan primed surplus, it could be adapted to a boxer primer, the powder put in, a surplus bullet installed for a total cost of about 20 cents or so if you have brass, and use premium powder. It would be about the same cost for the Mosin Nagant 7.62x54R or 7.62x39.
Just a few powders will do most anything, and again, people have their favorites, but we are talking survival and getting a powder to work for many uses. Unique powder can be adapted to do most any pistol caliber and will also work for just about any shotgun too. One pound will load about 1000 .38 / .357, so it will last awhile. IMR 4350 is good for many rifle loads. If you have your favorites, fine, stock up on those. If I only had 2 powders to stock up on these would do the job.
When you are reloading, keep the old primers. They could be used to make your own buckshot if need be, or you could use your imagination to come up with uses for small projectiles. Think about it, Mr. Claymore. This article is meant to be for entertainment purposes only, don’t try anything dangerous or you may get hurt and Jim or myself is not responsible for anyone’s actions.
Get busy and get the supplies into patriots hands. Barter, trade, pay cash, whatever, but get the tools we will need in the troubled times ahead. Keep the faith, keep your powder dry, and when they come for your guns, give them the little parts first.
Skip in Kansas City
(A Loyal minion)
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23 comments:
Great guest article. Keep em coming.
To salvage bullets from loaded ammo
you will need a bullet puller.
The collet type screws into a press. Put loaded round in shell holder. Raise the ram to place bullet in collet. Tighten collet. Lower ram to pull bullet.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=419303
The inertia type looks like a hammer.Unscrew the top, drop in a loaded round, secure the top and whack the table or log or stump. Inertia dumps the bullet and powder from the cartridge case the bullet puller.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=810810#enalarge
Well, that just seems like a good arguement for a black powder.
But may be a good item for barter...
Great post. I've been doing that for years. I have 3 five gallon spackle buckets filled with brass. One is solely .223, one is rifle only and the other is a mix of rifle and pistol. They never go bad, so I figure I can keep them forever.
He's right about even keeping the ones you don't have a gun for. You may have a friend with one, you may buy one or one may come available in the troubled times ahead.
Remember, a gun without bullets is just a club.
Thank you Skip.
A good article.
A few points:
All primers are not the same. Some brands have the reputaion of being "soft." This causes slam-fires in some semi-autos.
While we might be able to "use" black powder, and I know there are web-sites on making it, those people get their supplies from a chemical house. Find ten people that are making it and using a natural sulphur deposit.
Whenever there is a new gun bill going thru congress every Tom, Dick and Harry stocks up on primers. Buy powder instead, there will be lots of guys sitting on primers with no powder.
When putting the primers in the ziplock for storage, KEEP them in the original factory package. I know most people know this already, but there is always some idiot that gets the idea to store them more compactly and dumps them out of the trays. (chain fire)
Primers are also re-cycled ($) for one of the rare metals they contain. (Can't remember which one though)
DW
I don't load ammo at this point in time but I do stock it in quantities.
Going to have to get more primers for the Muzzleloaders! Great Post
what about 209 primers for the shotguns? get'em now while you can.
berdan primers are larger than boxer, if you try to use boxer primers in berdan brass they will be to loose.
if you want to reload berdan brass just buy some berdan primers now while you can get them.
a complete small single stage reloading setup can be had from lee for about $100. get the dies you need and the powder now while you can!
Wow an Absolutely Fabulous Post!!! Thank You James and Surely Skip. Also great Comments. The 209 shotshell primers that Scountinlife and 4:36 mention are not only vital for shor guns but Most of all for the Muzzel Loaders. The produce a hot ignition that will fire loose black power as well as Pyrodex pellets.
Thanks again Guys
Old Fart
Loyal Minion.
This Is What I've Been Talking About Folks. On The Ammo Issue...
Wow, an absolutely fabulous post!!!
But. IS A REPEAT OF MEL TAPPAN'S...SOME 30 TO 35 YEARS LATE.
Nothing new. Same old stuff. Just new authors.
Old fart.
Loyal cunt.
in an unrelated vein(?)model rocket engines,,,,
"A REPEAT OF MEL TAPPAN'S...SOME 30 TO 35 YEARS LATE..."
well, it's sunday, i'm bored/depressed, so i'll rant and rave about one of my favorite pet peeves: the bunker mentality...
okay, it's not as bad as the yuppies and the guppies (wannabes) absolutely insisting that the government doesn't have to raise taxes to increase spending (btw, fiat inflation is the hidden tax).
so what if you went and bought a stash of primers 35 years ago ?
would you have used them ? would they still be viable after all this time ? would it have been a bad investment ?
anyway, i just inventoried the silver i bought when i was a kid. it's actually only appreciated recently, but has done better than wall street and los vegas combined. (whoppie do !)
however, i've put aside some small lots of solar and shake flashlights. and maybe some solar battery chargers next.
i've thought about knives, but i already have way more than i could ever use. which isn't many.
the only other things i've considered are drill bits, razor blades, and castile soap.
anyway, my feeling is that stashing some stuff that you can and will actually use in moderate quantities makes sense.
however, i've heard a few stories about people having stashed things like dried beans, and when an emergency came, nobody knew too soak them before cooking...
be practical, on the other side of the collapse, your not going to 'get rich quicker' than you would have in the servile society, but your more likely to be comfortable.
Geez you would think that someone who calls other people names and implies they are ignorant would have the Balls to sign a name to thier comment.
I guess that would be too much for someone obviously smarter, more well read, and an off the board IQ.
Old Fart. Loyal Minion or what ever the great one ANON 7:52 calls me. GFYSAH
I have to wonder about the need for so much ammo. 1,000 rounds? (I've certainly heard many folks recommend more). If you fire off 1,000 rounds defending your turf, what do you suppose the chances are that you'll survive the fact that someone on the other end is possibly slinging lead back your way? Are you going to burn several thousand rounds shooting deer? If you're firing off rounds protecting your turf, I say within a 100 rounds, one side or the other is dead. Winner gets the loser's ammo. If deer are the intended target, what do you suppose the chances are you living past 500 deer, considering two rounds per deer? If you know how to preserve the kill, 500 deer ought to last a long, long time. If you don't know how to preserve the kill, I say you die of food poisoning long before expending 1,000 rounds. Primers, reloading equipment, brass, what are the chances of living long enough to need this gear if you have 1,000 rounds of ammo? I'd say about zero. With all this gear, one would need a fixed base camp. If the lead is flying to the point folks are going through 1,0000s of rounds of ammo, the chance of survival in a fixed location are nil.
OK you loyal cunts and everyone else, I'm big time into reloading and let me say: While I applaud the idea of making people aware of the need to stock up on primers, this whole thing is really kinda laughable. I hope no one here goes out and buys a bunch of stuff just based on this guest article and the comments. If you're going to learn how to reload, by all means do so but take the time to properly educate yourself. Get a book. How about checking out a proper website devoted to relaoding? Primers won't do you any good at all without brass, powder, and slugs. Don't think that because you have a few brass you can just keep on reloading them till the cows come home. They're only good for so many bangs. depending on skill and procedure, some people get more loads from a casing than others, but eventually they all fail.
Bottom line: Bison has demonstrated time and again he doesn't know dick about guns, and he shouldn't be talking about them much.
Yes I agree. People should not come here for info on guns. The consequences of failure are too serious. The people dispensing free info here may or may not have a clue what they're talking about. If you're new to guns, go somewhere else to learn about guns and ammo. If you already know about it, then you already know where to find reliable info- and this ain't the place. You really want to take advice about firearms from a guy who thinks of himself as ANYONE'S minion, let alone Bison's minion? -Herters#204
Anonymous 1:24, you are correct but I think are missing the point - WITHOUT PRIMERS, ALL OF THE REST DOESN'T WORK! Most reloaders have brass 'n bullets 'n powder, but doesn't really think of stashing primers as well - just so easy to go out and buy.
Having a supply of primers can net you some reloaded ammunition by a reloader - offer them 'halvsies', one round for you, one round for me. Seems fair enough - all of the hardware, bullets, powder and brass will be for naught.
Just my .02.
Since this is a site about frugal survival, let me add my two cents worth.
Right now I only reload 7.62x54r using boxer primed brass. I can't find berdan primers anywhere, so that is out of the question. My reloading equipment consists of a lee classic hand loading kit $23.00, case trimmer $9.00, and a piece of wood that I use as a mallet. I reload 5 or 6 rounds at a time because I'm shooting a bolt action and conserving ammo.
There is nothing wrong with stocking up on reloading supplies, but if you are planning on keeping that semi-auto going in spray and pray mode, then your still thinking like a "tommy tactical" rather than a survivalist. Yes I have semi-auto's and several 1000's of rounds that I bought when times were better,(for the golden horde days) but in the log run I'll be depending on that old Mosin of mine to put meat on the table and deal with the occasional two legged varmint.
Hey R.E.A.L.,
Where do you get your brass for the 7.62x54R? It is pretty hard to come by from what I have found. I did get a deal on steel case 147 gr. from http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/ammo-for-rifles/7-62x54r/p/7-62x54r-bulgarian-light-ball-fmj-ammo%2C-steel-case%2C-440-rd-tins-/cPath/12_42/products_id/1789 for $84.92 per 480. These are berdan primmed and steel case. They can be reloaded, but what a pain. I wanted to pick up 500 brass versions of the 7.62x54R. I think this might be a lifetime supply for hunting 4 legged critters, and then I would have the steel case versions if need be. Also what is your loading data? Did you slug your barrel? If so, what was the diameter? I thought about selling my Eddystone and converting it into 3 more Mosin Nagants. It would give me backup and could arm a few friends if need be.
Thanks,
Skip in Kansas City
I just read the Comic Hero entry- and I've got just one comment-
"Super Loyal Minion brownie points"??!!!
Oh my God, will you get the fuck over yourself?
Hhehe lol yeah I hear ya anon.
There was a time when I'd go out of my way to help the guy. But then he started calling me a "loyal minion" which turns my stomache. That's not something you say to someone if you have any respect for them...and he continues with it still...now, I wouldn't piss on him to put him out of fire.
Skip,
I get my brass the expensive way, S&B $18 for 20rd box. Shoot once new then reload. I try to buy a box or two every payday so it doesn't hurt so much to build up a supply. I did slug each of my 91/30's to be safe, and ended up going with a .3125 bullet. I bought a 1000 pulled bullets from http://wideners.com/index.cfm that were pretty cheap at the time. As far as reloading data goes, I use the chart that came with the lee loader. It is a light load, but I have no interest in firing a hot load through a 60 year old rifle. In fact my groupings got a bit tighter with the lighter load.
I'm no expert, this is just what I do. BTW, if you or anybody knows were I could find Berdan primers, please let me know. The only problem with converting Berdan to boxer primed is that the boxer primers are smaller. I just don't like the idea of a loose primer and a flame path leading back to my face kind of thing. In an emergency I would do it, but not until then.
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