GROUPS
It can't be easy trying to get a survival group together. Everyone will have a different idea of what is necessary or desirable. Everyone will try to be the leader. Financing the initial land purchase would have been tough a year ago and virtually impossible today. How do you pick a spot everyone likes? Where everyone can be employed? Etcetera. There has got to be 101 different complications. Which I guess is why either they are all really clandestine or more likely just don't exist.
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You had a few attempts ( to judge from personal ads ) to get another couple to join a homestead, or something similar on a small scale. I'm sure those might have worked, or at least been feasible. But getting a viable group together? One that followed the old recommendations of getting the ideal mix of doctors, carpenters, ex-soldiers, and what not, should have been nearly impossible. Even before Y2K, even now. Too many different ideas of what is needed, when to panic. I think the best you can hope for is to have a plan to all meet at one place in the event of a disaster. Even then the plan most likely wouldn't work out since the folks would be widely scattered and encounter difficulties all getting to the meeting spot in one piece. But it's the only way everyone's different ideas could work together.
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So, the only other option would seem to be to have an "accidental" survival group. You group together under other reasoning, then hope for the best. For instance, a religious group. More feasible every day, a group getting together to share expenses. A tent city would seem to offer little hope of holding anything other than the dregs of society, but look for something similar such as RV'ers looking for a place to park. At least they have financial means, needing gas and insurance. A couple or two sharing a larger house. Yes, ripe with potential conflicts. We love our own space, owning our own castle. Which was feasible under an era of growing wealth ( first an untapped wilderness, then a treasure of petroleum ), and getting harder to do now. Groups will be tricky and need tender loving care. You need as many advantages as possible. Say, a couple of close buddies or lifelong friends or even some kind of blood ties. Something that makes it harder for anothers behavior to lead to an irrevocable split.
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The point I'm trying to make here is that if you use another excuse besides being survivalists, you will have a much easier time forming some kind of group. Granted, you won't be surrounded with people armed to the teeth and having a decades worth of freeze dried foods, but neither will you be all alone in a wilderness cabin waiting for zombie bikers.
END
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Monday, March 09, 2009
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22 comments:
A lot of extended families in other countries live together in the best of times. But since I can't even convince the spouse to go, I will probably be solo. If things ever get really bad then others might want to come, if they can still travel. Problem is they probably won't be bringing supplies so unless they have some super talents they will be a burden.
My definition of "tribe" is,
anyone you've eaten dinner with.
That's informal enough to cover taking spare dessert to the neighbors, or maybe your work pals, or the kids' friends, definitely your nearest and dearest.
It surprises me how much "tribe" works, have gotten quite a few offers of food to be canned, and a few requests, just from a little network like this.
In my opinion the best survival group is a close family unit. Even then when the going gets really tough you will still need to watch your back.
All groups need leadership and discipline which are not very welcomed by free-loaders. In essence, the individuals in a group have to work and the tendancy to free-load has to be checked.
Most religions have so-called "fundamentalist" groups or churches where even intelligent, doubting people join in order to enhance their survival by accepting a leardership that enforces and encourages members to disciplined work and to eliminate and exclude free-loaders.
In any truly desperate situation, people who join a strong, co-operating group has a survival advantage. Of course, it's all a gamble. In some given situations, it's better to be a lone free loader.
MD is right, family is best... But if nothing else, maybe a group of preppers could come together, get a piece of land, if for nothing else than a "vacation spot", and at least they'll all have someplace to go when SHTF.... Yeah, I know, 'tain't easy....
Oops, forgot to "subscribe"....
Groups with non-related members can be very difficult to manage. One example problem, of many, will be the desire to bring in relations and friends should the SHTF.
If a group members cousin or grandkids (and their parents) are starving, should they be let in? Come one, come all?
Very tough considerations when there are limited resources. Could lead to many problems within the group.
Survivaltopics is exactly right.
I can imagine a point where you would have to turn away your own friends and extended family. This would be seriously compounded by sharing a land purchase for example with others.
The large family with kids old enough to shoot and fight might be ideal.
Dad, Mom and maybe 6 kids now that's a tribe. Also maybe add an "Alice" to help with the clean up and cooking.
"the best survival group is a close family unit..."
well, i'll trade you my family for a couple of boxes of toilet paper. it's not that their worthless or lazy, just lot's of supervisor types who would only consider spending ANY money on themselves. it's not called the *ME GENERATION* for nothing....
"All groups need leadership and discipline.."
i'll think i'll take my chances elsewhere, thank you. frankly, most white americans are too flakey ( morally challenged ) and down right too selfish to work as a group. you'll never see an american family picking vegtables in a field like a mexican family.
"but neither will you be all alone in a wilderness cabin waiting for zombie bikers."
it was decades ago when i was living near a biker bar and well, i would imagine if we're talking real real worse case survival scenario... i think i would prefer rounding up stray soccer moms, some wine and valium and bringing them to a biker party. i know that sounds sort of sick, even as a joke, but about 1/2 would probably go for it.
hey! but that's my opinion, and it's free, except for the time you spent reading it. and that's about what it's worth.
DEMENTED in NEW HAMPSHIRE
Can you imagen having *MAYBERRY* AS A MEMBER OF YOUR GROUP??
I rather take my chances with strangers.
IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME...ASK HIS WIFE..
he will be whinning all day, giving his opinion and getting his nose into everything. Trying to get something for nothing..Just like his blog... he shows a little brake job and he expects donations.
He wants to imitate American Heroes and he is neither a survivalist or a hero. He just does not have an ounce of survivalist in his body, much less his brain.
Go back to your POP UP TRAILER kid
Keep dreaming. go to your wife and at least say hello.
Fuck up Demented in New Ha Ha mpshire.
Having a small survival group is I think ideal because trying to do all the chores yourself like a garden that will sustain you, canning (lots of work here), hunting for food, 24/7 secutity/protection etc takes more than a single family can do to have a fair chance at survival.
The difficult part of groups is joint ownership and I think that is where most groups fall apart, you need to own your own space.
Buying acreage and subdividing and having your own private space, your own garden space, own firewood etc but sharing equipment roto-tillers, log splitters and other big ticket items may work.
mayberry cannot get along with his goverments. he cannot get along with his wife. he cannot get along with people leaving truthfull comments in his blog. he cannot get along at work. if he cannot get along with all those, what makes you think he will get along with a survival group?
In a group you need men not whinners.
In a survival group you need succesfull people not free loaders.
In a survival group you need people that will contribute not welfare or tax cheaters.
In a survival group you need people with state of the art artifacts thet will get you the game for sustainning the group, not people with a $ 69,00 dollars mosing and $ 40.00 worth of surplus ammo.
Wake up. you want reliable people not cry babies.
Go learn something, go to his site and all you gonna see is cry baby cry. *every day*. no wonder his wife tlls him STFU. A.H.
He gives his opinion to every one but he does not take his own advise.
I would like to hear from his wife. I bet she got something to tell. (I believe will be the truth)
I wonder why he is so anti goverment. Why he does not show what goverment he admires soo much.
I'll take any family or friends that show up at the door.
. . . been hanging with the right group of people for years.
-Sixbears
Sorry all these pathetic trolls gotta vent their stupidity here Jim. Maybe I'll have a "troll amnesty day" so they can spout their misspelled MO-ronic garbage on my blog, and leave you alone for a day...... All they got left on my blog is the "reaction" check boxes, but apparently checking "crap" every day ain't enough for these poor buggers....
joeys/Cub/scouts/ventures/rovers/leaders.
Sure, its all based around camping, but nearly all of camping gear is survival gear, and half of survival gear is in camping, so it makes a pretty decent start.
see you still have your pet troll entertaining you with his witty comments, seriously, you boning this guys wife, or what?
anyway, I'm all in for the family thing, but I think planning ahead on a group thing is to fluid to set in stone.
I think, and plan accordingly, that it will just happen in the changing situation at hand.The peaceful hunt and garden preppers would be fine, with some contact and sharing with with neighbors.
Only when the risks increase will folks need to band together for mutual survival, and prolly just for the short term.
Mickey. You got it wrong.
I do collect wives. ...Somebody else's wives.
Where do you think Jim's wife is right now?
Rigth next to MAYBERRY's. They come to me.
I just give them good living, not trailer living.
Big Bone
John Robb (Global Guerrillas blog) on tribes:
"So how do you build a tribe? A strong tribe, in this post-industrial environment, isn't built from the top down. Instead it is built organically from the bottom up. A simple tribe starts with cementing ties to your extended family, a connection of blood. The second step is to extend that network to include other families and worthy individuals. A key part of that is to build fictive kinship, a sense of connectedness that leads to the creation of loyalty to the group. That kinship is built through (see Ronfeldt's paper for some background on this):
* Story telling. Shared histories and historical narratives.
* Rites of passage. Rituals of membership. Membership is earned not given due to the geographic location of birth or residence.
* Obligations. Rules of conduct and honor. The ultimate penalty being expulsion.
* Egalitarian and often leaderless organization. Sharing is prized.
* Multi-skilled. Segmental organization (lots of redundancy among parts).
* Two-way loyalty. The tribe protects the members and the members protect the tribe. If this isn't implemented, you don't have a tribe, you have a Kiwanis club."
yes, I've read that article. a lot of wisdom there, in the comments as well. here's the link:
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2009/03/manufacturing-fictive-kinship-.html
Greetings to "BIG BONE" the TROLL-HOLE. It's really delightful that you have a handle now.
"he will be whinning all day, giving his opinion and getting his nose into everything. Trying to get something for nothing.."
gee, MR. BIG BONE,sound familiar? look in the mirror and at the meth addled drivel you spew forth from the bottom of your Dunkin Donut and McDreks greese laden stomach.
"He wants to imitate American Heroes.."
Barry Bonds, A-rod, Madonna, Paris Hitler, Michael Jackson....is there any wonder that this KULTURE won't survive the collapse ?
"Fuck up Demented in New Ha
Ha mpshire."
what's that! ryhme time, Mr. BIG BONE ?
..time to leave home, BIG BONE
get off daddy welfare
and out on your own...
"mayberry cannot get along with his goverments."
well, BIG BONE, how may governments are you talking about ? 5, 10, 20 ?
"In a survival group you need people that will contribute not welfare or tax cheaters."
Hey, cheating on taxes is the great american past time, go ask all those butt boys obammy has been appointing.
or are you just afraid, that the government is going to stop paying for your ritalin?
"I wonder why he is so anti goverment."
oh! so that's the REAL PROBLEM. some of the folk here are making plans and DOING something about keeping it together and feeding themselves, and not waiting for the GOVERNMENT to change their diapers...
let's see, i'm against the failed iraq war/ oil grab. i'm against the failed drug war. i'm against socialism for the rich, i'm against corporat polluters and business subsidies. i'm against all the special interest that ran this country into an early grave.
in essence, BIG BONE, stop being a moron and wake up, the government is failing and will collapse just like the economy. it's gone it's over.
so BIG BONE if you still have to bother us with your rather childish and border line criminal harrasement, could you at least spare us your 'consensus reality' civics class drivel.
could you actually try and be funny, could you spare some time and tell us what you are planning to do for the future ?
if you see something better, please enlighten us, the misery index is the only going up these days...
DNH
I think when it comes to groups trust is more important than skills. It would be great to have that perfect mix but I think you've pretty much got parts of your extended family, some friends and maybe a person or two from work.
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