Tuesday, April 13, 2010

what a dragunov

WHAT A DRAGUNOV


Okay, this really kind of hacks me off. My big return, lacking only a ticker tape parade and some cool initials like VJ Day, I’m leaning towards BM Day for Bison’s Marvelous Day, or fill in the blanks for a preferable title, and Creekmore steals my thunder and makes me look like a thieving lurker. I actually had the idea last Friday after reading a response to http://www.survivalblog.com/ article on theSaiga arsenal. The comment went something like, the magazines make this a bad idea since they are $35 each and went on to suggest it would be cheaper to go with the generic HK-91 since the mags are a buck each. Sure they are, until the surplus is all gone. Kind of like the 303 Brit ammo that was only a quarter each until it was all gone and those guys over in Eastern Europe thought that it would be a great idea to stick it to the capitalist running dogs, beat them at their own game of free market pricing, and now even that once cheap ammo is 75 cents a round retail. But that isn’t what prompted me to write this article. My thought was, they should be focusing on the ammunition instead of the magazines.

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Before we get too far into this, let me just stop you right in your tracks. Do not under any circumstances get the wrong idea. I am not endorsing semi-automatic weapons here. While I love semi’s all to pieces and would love to have racks of gleaming HK’s, since they are the perfect end of the world battle rifle being virtually indestructible and last in a field environment beyond the other hunks of junk that foul themselves with their actions or are made with crap parts, and several 1911A1’s since while they might not be as great as the Austrian Glock’s they are certainly better for beating an enemies brains into bloody pulp having quite a bit more heft to them, semi-automatics are a child of the Oil Age. When oil was nearly free, it makes sense to mine ores that are in very low concentrations. Metal is then quite inexpensive. Unless you have pretty much been asleep at the wheel of your SUV lately, you might have noticed how expensive steel and other metal has become. You could blame the Chinese if it makes you sleep better at night but I’ll place the blame where it most likely belongs which is on high energy prices. You think we are driving on half our corn crop because we like to pay three times as much for meat and dairy? No, dumbass. It is because we have no other choice. Just because we are forced to doesn’t mean Big Ag isn’t going to line up at the public trough to enrich themselves at the same time ( and also the banks as the corporations take out loans for the equipment ). And I wonder if anyone has figured out the following: Is government really losing money on ethanol if you factor in the gas tax? I’m not talking about 85% ethanol, just the 10% added to regular gas. Anyway, ethanol use isn’t because Big Ag bribed the government as much as it is we are losing too much regular oil NOT to use it. And that is why metal is now expensive and will stay that way. We already have the ammo equation to screw up our prep plans.

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But let us just say for the sake of argument that you are going to ignore my great advice yet once again. You simply must have a semi-automatic. If you do, you must factor in the ammunition price. Not just the weapon and the magazines. If it isn’t tactical suicide, you might want to consider pistol ammo carbines. Or, if battle rifles are your thing, what about the Dragunov? That is/was the Russians semi-auto sniper ( or at least counter-sniper ) rifle. The two great things about it are that is uses the AK gas system and that it uses the cheapest rifle ammo available right now, the 7.62x54r. Now, I don’t profess to be an expert on this weapon. I always thought it would be cool to own, but have done almost no research on it until this weekend. I couldn’t even find out if it can be manually reloaded by stripper clip, which would be a deal breaker on this system since the mags are $70 each. Unfortunately I found nothing spelling that out. Not at http://www.dragonuv.net/ , nor in the comments section at Creekmores article. I didn’t have time to slog through 60+ comments. If the rifle takes stripper clips, then you might be golden. Here is a breakdown on price, excluding scopes or scope mounts.

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A Dragunov is about $800 and uses a 20 cent round. A Saiga is $400 and uses a 60 cent round. A generic HK is about $900 and a 60 cent round. Assuming a dozen mags each will get both the Saiga and the HK at the same price. If you want two thousand rounds of ammo, it is the Dragunov $1300, the others $2k. At three thousand rounds it is $1500 and $2600. Four thousand rounds of ammo brings it to $1700 and $3200. Now, obviously, whether you reload or not might alter the equation, but if I’m not mistaken the HK is usually impossible to reload after the action chews up the brass. I’m not saying the Dragunov is the best system to own, I don’t know that for sure. I am pointing out that once you factor in the ammunition it might behoove you to pick a weapon that isn’t part of the normal Militia’s Choice. Now, if anyone is unsatisfied with my lack of field testing, please feel free to contact me for my local gunshop’s phone number and you can buy the rifle for me and I’ll evaluate it in more detail. And, damnit Creekmore, please clear all article subjects through me before you post. I don’t want a repeat of this, it’s simply too embarrassing. You know how fragile my ego is. You just can’t get good free help anymore.

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16 comments:

Anonymous said...

Dragunov's go for well over $2K in my neck of the woods, maybe the Tigre variant can be found for $1300. The Romak PSL looks (sorta) like a Dragunov, uses the 762X54R round, and can be had for $580 or so w/mags and issue scope, and mine will hold a 2" group at 100m. 440 round can of good (but corrosive primed) is running about $80.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like the same reason I finally got some Tokarevs in my gun preps, as cheap and available as 7.62x25 ammunition is at the present. Handgun for $200, plus $8 a box of 72 rounds - just makes a lot of sense economically.

But I also have to wonder if its all for naught. If someone is exchanging shots with you, how many rounds would it take before a well aimed / lucky / richochet round found you and killed you? I'm thinking a person would have to be lucky if your luck ran past 300 rounds or so. After that, you are just supplying the person who beat you with extra rounds.

Maybe stocking enough to give them a heart attack carting it off is the tactic then - always try to see the sunny side of Life I always say, lol.

Seriously speaking, I guess one of that Druganovs would make a lot of sense to the person who has just seen the light and has sticker shot looking at the ARs / HKs and other platforms. Might be a good start is all I'm saying - this rifle, along with a few <$200 M/N rifles would be an inexpensive way to gain you a security squad.

Anonymous said...

Hey, crazy a$$ thought for escaping Armageddon occured to me last night. Waaaay out there, but worth considering.

Remember that Norwegian scientist / explorer Thor Heyerdahl that set off to prove that some Pacific islands were peopled by currents from Western South America (Peru?) to them? How much would it take to do the same thing, only getting the hell out of Dodge to avoid the troubles on Mainland?

Yeah, yeah, pirates and other sea adventures, but might be a way to get away is all I'm saying.

Bitmap said...

HK's don't damage brass to the point that it can't be reloaded. However, their habit of throwing the empties 15 or 20 yards away can make it difficult to find empties to reload.

theotherryan said...

Pretty much any rifle mag can be reloaded with stripper clips. However since the Druganov has an enclosed top like an AK as opposed to an open one like an Enfield or a Garand or an SKS the magazine would have to be taken out of the rifle to reload.

Druganov mags only hold 10 rounds if I recall. Also I don't know what they cost.

They are however a "battle rifle" that shoots cheap ammo.

Radio Bloger said...

Just to clear up a few confusion points.

The PSL from Romania is not a Dragunov you will not find a real Dragunov for that low of a price - a real Dragunov will run 2000 USD or more.

The PSL on the other hand is in my opinion a great idea for a main rifle, far more accurate than an AK and as potent as a .308 or 30-06 (in fact the WWII standards for the 30-06 are lower in power than the 7.62x54r)

I have been recommending the PSL as a main rifle for quite some time, it even comes with it's own cheep but working scope.

The Dragunov is a better made rifle that is capable of better accuracy than the PSL as the Dragunov is a short stroke piston vs. the long stroke piston of the PSL. The gas piston is connected to the bolt of the PSL like a huge AK, where the Dragunov has a smaller adjustable piston that rides above the barrel and is not connected to the bolt.

PSL magazines are ten rounds and are about 25 bucks each - sorry no stripper clips for either the PSL or the Dragunov but the limit of 10 rounds per mag may fit your "fire control" doctrine and limit "spray and pray" the recoil alone could help do this.

Good post.

Radio Bloger said...

Bitmap is correct, it is and always has been a myth that the HK rifles make the brass un-reload-able.

Want the facts, test it yourself.

I have reloaded HK .308 brass for over 20 years now.

James m Dakin said...

RB-thank you so very much. This is where the comments section earns its keep- by bringing together readers with the hidden expert they need.

Grumpyunk said...

Shot my brothers PSL last week. Nice weapon and easy to shoot. Recoil is surprisingly light compared to my Mosins of the same caliber. It's important to remember that it should be fed the light ball rounds and not the heavy ball. Once you get it dialed in and figured out, the scope works quite well too.
My youngest son was making 2" groups at 200 yards after only 10 rounds of practice.

Anonymous said...

What about the Cetme?

Going for about $500 currently.

Anonymous said...

I know you had a problem with the russian bolt guns (no gas bleed or something like that) chambered for 7.62x54r but I picked up a couple anyhow. They could use a scope but they are fun to shoot and cheap by today's standard. $100 for 91/30 and $118 for M38. These guns are solid and should last for a long time, just clean them after shooting corrosive ammo. I would like to have a PSL one day.

Suburban Survivalist said...

.303 was once cheap and now is not.

7.62x54R is now cheap and someday will not be. But it all now.

But instead of a Dragunov, why not get 10 (or 20) Mosin Nagants to arm your minions?

Anonymous said...

all of these weapons and ammo can be obtained for free. that's right, for free.

all you need is a long sweat sock with a bar of soap.
(1) drop soap in sweat sock.
(2) tie a knot in sweat sock.
(3) walk up behind previous owner quietly and BAM!!!
(4) take newly acquired weapon and ammo back to base camp.

i'm just sayin'

James m Dakin said...

The CEMTE, what little I've heard of it, and I think that was mostly from Boston's Gun Bible, does poorly with the iron sites. Impact point off by many inches and sometimes by feet. You might be stuck with optics only. And remember guys, this was semi-only porn. Of course it is better to have multiples of bolt rather than one semi, but I had to throw the mob a bone. And, a gas safety bleed is on the Enfield and the Mauser- so why did the Russians consider it useless? And when all your post-apocalypse ammo is older than dirt or half-assed reloaded, it might be more important than ever.

rayj said...

Two sks's and four hundred rds. of ammo for less than 300$...'course these were purchased a few days a go...:-)Passed on a slick Norinco sks last Fri. @ flea mkt for 225$>>HAVE A couple of 10-22's for pepper duty to spice things up..

Bobba said...

"And, a gas safety bleed"
Not a perfect fix, but I always wear ballistic shooting glasses. Have 2 sets of clears, 2 sets of shades & 1 set of clear goggles on my kevelar pot.