RIMFIRE STRATEGY
I don’t think I’ve covered rimfire for at least a year, and as everyone who has read the Bison Bi-Laws knows, any subject not covered for thirty days is subject to repeat. Unless you have a waiver from the board of directors, in which case you may repeat as soon as seven days. Hey, I don’t make the rules here. Just trying to get along with everyone. Before we get down to business, another word on the subject of the Russian bolt and the gas bleed safety. I don’t think the concern is with using modern ammo or reloads, but sometime in the future when you are using improvised cases and components. Then this could become a valid concern. Of course, it is also true that the
Russian guns
cost one third the price ( or at least one half ) and the ammo is one fifth. It has to be a personal decision. Also, while I’m babbling away trying to kill time and distract you, once again I want to thank Sam. My God, if I ever see another fried shrimp I’ll most likely puke blood ( the surf and turf buffet Saturday night, I ate so much I’ve satisfied my sea food craving for life ). This has nothing to do with the rest of you, although I now love doing the “what I had for dinner last night” thing to hack off certain critics ( it doesn’t matter they had a point ). Also, Sam, please don’t contribute again for awhile. You know I can’t say no, and then I’ll feel bad about it. You have done more than enough and have already earned the Vice
Fuhrer
Of Bisonia slot ( password available on request ). Unless you want the head of security gig, but you must be willing to liquidate enemies of the state which pretty much includes everyone.
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Here was the question from a loyal minion which prompted this article:
22LR
Why do some survival blogs recommend stashing large amounts of 22LR ammo and then a few weeks later they warn about all of the animals disappearing after TSHTF and you shouldn't count on hunting to get food. Some survival experts say 22LR will be just like money after a collapse,others say you shouldn't trade ammo. For self defense 22LR sucks, how many rounds will really be needed for hunting? So what do you think? Should folks store large amounts of 22LR or just a few bricks?
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I wonder if that first part referred to me? Anyway, this is a good question. I recommend you get yourself your bolt gun and wheat and filter and
grinder
. That is your bare bones equipment. Only when you have enough to survive off of for your required period of time ( I think three years is optimistic ) do you branch out in your supplies ( because, at least in my view, time is of the essence and you need a lot of Better Than Nothing rather than a lot less of Perfect ). Add beans, look into junk land. Add more ammo and guns. Heck, perhaps even precious metals if you have extra. When you have satisfied yourself with enough of the basics, then you should get yourself
rimfire weapons
. Not for hunting. If we had half the population we have now during the 1930’s Depression, and the hunting grew scarce after a time, what makes anyone think any animal will be left during a collapse now? Hunting should be
snares
and
slingshots
and pellets anyway ( obviously, we are talking about the more readily available [at first] small game such as squirrels ). Hunting, other than for disease carrying rats, is a
Robinson Crusoe
fantasy. For a few in desolate areas, fine. For the other 99% of us, hunting will be a lottery, not a guaranteed. Nice if you can get it, but don’t count on it. Rimfires are actually for killing men, and it won’t be at its present disadvantage.
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A rimfire against a surplus bolt gun is suicide. A rimfire against a shotgun is a fifty/fifty chance of death ( depending on range ). A rimfire against a
Saturday Night Special
, at close range, is stupid. A rimfire against am M-16 gives you an even chance as it will jam as often as fire, so you role the dice ( I’m only slightly kidding ). But we will not be fighting those weapons with our rimfire. We will hunker down during the die-off. If we have to fight, we have our centerfire bolt guns. But a certain time after the collapse, then we will see the ammunition dry up and then the rimfire comes into its own as a fighting weapon. You will be fighting against centerfires with very limited ammunition ( the owners of the plastic toy semi’s will realize as they get to their last reloads that pray and spray is no longer a viable tactic ). They will be afraid of using their last rounds on you, while in comparison you can hose them down ( one 22 hit doesn’t do squat most of the time, three or four add up ). Not that you should ever engage in anything other than controlled marksmanship, even if you have 20k rounds. I’m speaking more of continual follow up shots. Then, most weapons will be using blackpowder ( assuming a surplus of nitrates, no overseas trade, or even local trade- there are a lot of variables in the devolution of weapons ). Or worse, back to bows/
crossbows
and edged weapons.
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Against archers ( of modest talent ) or most blackpowder shooters ( especially if they are using modern weapons with the powder ), the rimfire will be superior. I’m talking about a real
collapse
here, absolutely no infrastructure or manufacturing, just a scavenger type existence. Not to use during the collapse/die-off but afterwards. I think this type of existence is just years away, although I’m sure most of you disagree. I have my rimfire arsenal for just such an occurrence. If I can hunt a bit, fine. If I have to use it to trade, assuming they won’t take some of my other crap, fine. Of course, that would be life and death, such as for antibiotics or some such. Under ideal conditions you certainly don’t want to trade ammo. If things are so stabilized that authority is reestablished then it is no big deal, but in Civilization Down, you do arm your enemies that way.
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I look at rimfire as insurance against ever running out of modern firepower in the long term. Then you need at least five to ten thousand rounds. If you aren’t concerned with the ass falling out of civilization, I wouldn’t bother with the expense. It is a niche need.
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14 comments:
I plan on using punji stick on you, round-eye. I creep through bush, kill you dog then eat dog. Then I make glorious victory when defeat america.
I will perform ninjitsu upon you family if you disrespect me. Why you no cover ninja stars? You racist, joe?
Makes a lot of sense to me. Rimfires are better than archery, especially for the folks who have to start from scratch. I also think they will be valuable trade goods - if there is a single gun in any residence, chances are strong it is either a .22, or a single shot shotgun.
Also consider air rifles, if only for pest eradication. Rats and mice are very destructive, and sometimes, traps just don't do it quick enough (sorry Jerry, but you got to go). I've shot pump-up pneumatic air rifles (1 pump) inside of residences, with no effect to surroundings, but kills to mice nearly instantly. Pellets are even less expensive than rimfire, and can be used to kill 'tweety birds' for the pot, which are far more prevalent than even small game. I think they have a place.
Store as much 22LR
subsonic as you can afford.
http://club.guns.ru/eng/sv99.html
99% of hunting will be harvesting
critters at the feeder within 30 yards or so. I shoot 3/4" groups of Remington 22LR subsonics
at 50 yards from my Marlin model 25
(1:16 twist barrel); and 3/8" groups of Aguila SSS 60 gr subsonic at 50 yards from Ruger 10/22 with aftermarket 1:9 twist barrel.
Subsonic ammo is very quiet from 22" or longer barrel. You may be able to drygulch intruders without alarming the whole county. My grandson killed a caged 400 lb hog
with one 22LR subsonic.
Please also see Tossing Rocks
http://www.jesseshunting.com/articles/guns/category16/66.html
http://tinyurl.com/39avuo
excerpt Inside towns and cities, the .22 LR sniper was very
effective, especially since the Chechens would improvise a very workable silencer by putting a
plastic bottle on the end of the rifle's barrel, with a hole in the bottom of the barrel for the bullet to exit. Using a cheap scope, Chechen snipers were very deadly at ranges of less than a hundred meters. Such ranges were pretty common in built up areas. And
since you usually did not hear the shot (to the head or face, of course),you had a hard time finding the shooter. Having suffered from these low tech .22 caliber Chechen snipers for ten years, the Russians
have come out with their own professional .22 LR sniper rifle, the SV-99.
http://club.guns.ru/eng/sv99.html
Jim, you can add toxoplasma gondi to the list of things that are going to kill us off.
http://tinyurl.com/29ngoec
Rimfires are useful for all sorts of stuff: training new folks, practice, adding the neighbors cat to the stew pot without the neighbor hearing the shot, rat patrol.
I'm big on rimfires. I figure as things start to fall apart most people wont have the fitness level, equipment, (good boots, good pack, reliable bicycle, maps) calorie intake, or desire to get far from home (walking burns 100 calories a mile). For those of us capable of getting around rimfires will come in handy to put food in the pot and ward off dogs without letting the whole freaking planet know where you are, becoming the town rat-catcher and so on.
Plus, my Single Six is just plain cool. Louder than crap if you're using the magnum cylinder, but accurate, reliable, and cool.
I'm not a believer in total collapse, so my stocks are somewhat limited, but I have a couple hundred rounds each of short, long-rifle, and magnum rounds.
Most hunting these days is very dependent on roads and petrol. As things fall apart there will be less hunting, not more.
Bicycles people! Get yourselves a good bike and ride it.
thanks vlad
that was interesting!
DW
Rimfires will also be useful for discouraging wimpy looters. Lets say I see someone trying to break into a nearby home after SHTF. I am NOT the neighbhorhood cop but this crap has to be stopped before it gets out of control. I don't want to waste a 303 or 12 gauge buckshot round so I gut shoot the bastard with my .22 The looter goes off in search of antibiotics and medical care and I do not have a messy clean up job. After a few looters are tagged with a .22 and die screaming from sepsis the word will get around.
Regarding 7.62x54r and pierced primers - some of the surplus stuff curently on the market has primers that pierce readily, at least that has been the case with the Bulgarain light ball in my gun. I have not had any primers let go when shooting the Czech, Russian or Polish light ball, and always wear eye protection when shooting.
what kind of .22lr weapon are you recommending? rifle? handgun?
bolt? semi-auto?
brands you have experience with?
no mention of ammo sensitivity with several semi-auto rimfire weapons?
no mention of .22short for keeping the noise down?
vs modern black powder weapons and moderately skilled archers? Are you sure you'd take those odds if you had the choice?
black powder is pretty popular with the hunter types... cheap and you don't have to pass a background check to get one in a lot of places.
seems like you are thinking of those types of weapons like a lot of folks think about .22lr
I am so excited about this posting I am almost at a loss for words. Almost! Uncommon sense! Perhaps you should eat seafood more often because it seems to reenergize your tired brain cells.
A roll of baling wire for snares,slingshots,pellet guns.
Save your ammo for the neighbors!
great job Bison!
There will come a time when you will not wish to use hivel 22 ammo that can be heard from far off. That would alert human predators.
Sight your scoped 22 for both hivel and subsonic ammo.
Sight in at 50 yards with hivel. Mark with one dot.
Sight in at 50 yards with subsonic. Mark with two dots.
Anon 8:15, the big minuses with BP are not only are they slow to load, the smoke obscures your target, and at same time marks your location. If I were firing at anyone, I'd want my location unadvertised (I didn't feel the need to share that with you).
Action type really doesn't matter that much with rimfire, semi auto chambers faster of course, but is dependent on decent ammunition with clean cases for reliable function.
As Vlad intimated above (Thanks Sir - always informative reading!), the longer barrelled rimfire will cut down on the report, especially with non supersonic ammunition. My 28" + barrel on my CZ Ultralux is very quite with Aquila SE target ammo.
Won Ton Charlie, you is funny dog!
I really can't imagine subsonic 22lr ammo being used against human targets. I use them occasionally for pest control, early in the morning since my wife doesn't like to be woken up by gunfire, as I toast my garden predators (mostly groundhogs). I've toasted many a ground hog in my day, and the subsonics don't kill them right away.
Even high velocity requires a really great shot to drop them quick, otherwise they stumble off. So people have really used these rounds successfully against people in Russia?? I'm sure getting shot in the face, even by a pellet gun would be rough, but can't see these as one shot kill ammo, seems very unrealistic. Even 22lr hi-vel ammo is pretty dinky stuff. In the country, I think the .308 will work just fine, and I prefer this for toasting hogs and predators from 100yards, and they fall over and play dead real nice. If you have to worry about the noise of 1 shot, then life is pretty nuts already, rather have one loud shot, then mostly worthless one shot that is nice and quiet.
"Anon 8:15, the big minuses with BP are not only are they slow to load, the smoke obscures your target, and at same time marks your location. If I were firing at anyone,"
Actually, some of the modern black powder substitutes hardly smoke at all, I believe 777 is one of these?
But of course the loading time as you have already mentioned is quite slow. One should consider the cap and ball revolvers with multiple pre-loaded cylinders, (uncapped until placed in the gun to be safe) if it's range you want, some of the cap and ball models are available with 12" barrels and offer decent accuracy at reasonable ranges.
Small game will be around for a long time. Rats, squirrels, rabbits, pigeons, seagulls. Rodents and birds will always be viable. Maybe not in the city, but once a few miles out.
This would be different if EVERYONE in any given major metropolis had hunting skills. But that is not the case. The ability to bring down small game is not a herculean task, but it is certainly beyond the scope of a common city dweller.
Someone with a 22 and some know how, should they be able to GTFO of the city, should do fine at getting rodents and birds enough to satisfy protein needs.
A few berries for vitamin C and other nutrients, and a starch source brought along, whether it be hard tack or potato flakes or whatever.
But this is short term. Long term even if one eats the entire small game carcass, at Paiute Indians did with rats, there is probably going to be caloric deficits. Paiutes ate a lot of starch because the fat in the bone marrow (dried and ground up entire rat carcass) did not supply enough calories, as opposed to say Buffalo hunting Indians who ate bison brains and kidney fat.
One way or another, fat or carbs, protein does not supply enough to survive on. Rabbit fever is still a threat, I believe, even if one eats the brains, organs and bones of the rabbit.
I still think the best survival tactic is sailboat. Sure the oceans are depleted, but they will bounce back quick when the fossil fuel dependent commercial fishing stops. And the seas will be the least crowded places on earth, with many eating options, lots of fat in the fishes. Sea birds. Sea mammals.
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