CHEAP GUNS
In a transparent and pathetic attempt to arrest the avalanche of minion desertions ( my daily numbers having gone from about 1425 to 1385, even after
Creekmore
’s valiant and kindly mention of my drivel in an article which listed me as Best Coiffured Survivalist Writer Of All Time or something similar to that ) I’m throwing out ( or, throwing up ) another feeble article on firearms. Actually, a comment once again coming to the defense of the
Mosin-Nagant
bolt action prompted this more than anything else. I know that the gun you are comfortable and talented with, regardless of all other factors, even with, God have mercy on our eternal souls, amen, the
AR-15
, is the best survival gun without peer. That is a given. Outside of that statement, all other bleating and blathering debating the merits of firearms is strictly aimed at those considering which arm to purchase. If you love the Russian bolt, good on you brother. All the power to you. But if you are considering with gun to get, I simply wouldn’t recommend it unless you simply have no other course financially. Primarily because, as I’ll keep mentioning forever, the lack of a gas safety bleed. If you have no rifle, you will die. If you get this rifle, that lack of safety MIGHT kill you. It is a case of the
lesser evil
. I just don’t think we should be confusing inexpensive with anything else, such as a good design. Please keep in mind that this rifle was adapted with absolutely no regard for how it affected the troops using it. The Czar viewed his peasant soldiers poorly, the Soviet commissars just as badly. The bad design of the Mosin-Nagant was a product of this disregard, as surely as the mass wave assault tactic with every third man armed was. Again, if you love this rifle and are good with it, fine. My only advice is to beware when you are forced to improvise ammunition for it. That is when this safety issue might be more of a factor. But if you have any means at all to spend more money on your rifle, most everything else is an improvement. This rifle is the modern equivalent of the cheap Italian Carinco ( I’m sure I just badly misspelled that- forgive me, but my work office Internet has been down a week and I barely get enough online time for the basics such as posting this and checking mail ) that fired the magic bullet that supposedly killed
JFK
.
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While I hate any “survival writer” that recommends the most expensive firearms ( okay, I don’t necessarily hate
Boston T Party 
or
Rawles
per se, as they both give oodles of other great advice. I just hate that aspect of their advice for the simple fact that modern Americans no longer have the financial means to follow this advice before the collapse happens ), that doesn’t mean the cheapest is conversely the best. For a short period of time, we were blessed otherwise. The
Lee-Enfield
was $100 retail. And the Mauser about the same or just slightly more. But as with all good things, such as when we could spend less than 10% of our income on food that tasted good and was wholesome, or at least still had nutrients of some kind, it can’t last forever. All good things come to an end. Affordable food. Affordable homes. Affordable guns. And, really, guns aren’t any worse than they were thirty or forty years ago. The golden heyday of affordability, mid nineties to mid 00’s or thereabouts, was an anomaly. That was when the market got flooded with the last of the cheap surplus petroleum and then when credit was still in full gusher. If you look at wages, guns are just as expensive, or as affordable depending on how you look at it, as they were at the beginning of the survivalist movement. The too-cheap-to-believe guns, the $99 SKS, the $49 Russian, the $80 Enfield or Mauser, they will never come back. They were a one-time surplus sell off ( well, the
SKS
would still be cheap if that mule member sucking Clinton hadn’t created an artificial shortage by cutting off Chinese sales ).
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If you look at wages, guns are pretty much the same price for continually manufactured items. Not the Union wages that disappeared. The “average” wage used to be much higher, especially back then. But just taking minimum wage, guns cost about the same. A months wages. Granted, I can only go to early eighties for personal experience, and the
minimum wage
is politically manipulated, but I think it is a better gauge than the price of gold or the official inflation index, both which far more artificial. Perhaps now you can only buy an HK clone rather than a German made rifle. But you get pretty much the same quality with just minor hiccups if you avoid the Spanish version. And it cost a months wages. If I recall correctly, mid-1980’s the HK was about $500. As was my take home pay for a monkey-spanker job ( so called for a job so devoid of needed skill that a someone sitting around “
spanking his monkey
” could be hired for it ). And of course I’m speaking of popular arms, not strange, limited production ones such as the Israeli Galil ( again, spelling? ) or a Swiss carbine. So, taking all your $800 to $1200 guns and putting them up against the Mausers or Enfields up there, by historical standards they are still affordable. Not 90’s affordable. But still a mere weeks wages rather than a months worth. Looked at that way, it seems silly to settle for the Russian bolt. If you don’t have to. Yes, it would be nice to still have “one days wage” guns left around. And great if we still had surplus ammo. But don’t confuse the low cost of
Mosin-Nagant
ammo with cheap surplus ammo. If reloads cost the same, there is no advantage in having the Russian throw-away ammo. In fact, it takes up much more room and can’t be moved as easily. That’s an advantage?
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All I’m saying is that the
Russian
rifle should only be for those that have no other choice. Don’t confuse quantity with quality. Admittedly, this dislike of mine is just a quirk. That doesn’t mean the rifle is total crap, just that I simply don’t care for it even at its current cheap price. I think the need to gunsmith scope mount it ( if you go with the pistol long relief scope that replaces the iron site to alleviate the tap and screw work, you are buying a low light optic more than a long distant optic ), doubling its cost, and the potential safety issue, make it less than optimal. The ammo cost is false economy. Just my two cents worth. An unpopular view, just as my “wheat is nearly all” diet recommendations. Try to spend a weeks wages instead of two days worth to protect yourself.
END
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7 comments:
Mosins are inexpensive because there were so f'ing many produced and recently dumped on the civilian market. The only thing in their price range are the inexpensive single shot rifles/shotguns and bottom of the barrel rimfire rifles. I would not choose a Mosin as a primary long-gun unless dirt poor, but would buy these long before the other options in the price range. (I own two).
The idea of being able to afford a couple of rugged, back-up rifles that fire a potent load plus a good amount of factory ammo for less than $300 is still a great deal. They are less than ideal as a long-range rifle (as you may want in your desert surroundings), not because of the rifle iteself but the limited options for an equally affordable good scope mount as you describe. Here in woods/brush country, the only complaint is the MN91/30 is a bit too long, but that is a fairly lame excuse on which to deny the strengths of the rifle.
There are millions of these rifles out there being shot. I just have not found reports of the problem you describe at any rate that would concern me. Probably a lot more firearms accidents from squib loads each year than Mosin-doesn't-have-a-gas-bleed accidents.
There is hyperbole about these rifles at times (just because one or two guys can hit a target at 1,000 yards with theirs does not mean squat when you happen to get a 6 moa Mosin), but similar affordability and quality are hard to come by these days.
Some insights about very low-cost ways of arming yourself :
You might find parts (only a barrel, receiver & bolt), and for a lesser price than a rifle. All you need is a stock (you can make one yourself if you really want). This is also good survivalist training : fix it, instead of buying it. If you have next to no cash, you may want to consider building your own zip gun (personally I find this a bit too extreme, but it would be logical).
Also consider beat-up old firearms which are still somewhat shootable.
Most people in your party will be terrible shots, and they will either shoot at a target too far away (in which accuracy plays no role) or very close ("negotiations" turned sour), in which case even mediocre accuracy is still OK.
You can reload reduced charges for those old rifles if they look marginally unsafe.
I think your numbers are just going through the usual ups and downs. Because the prepper community is so small compared to many other interest groups on the internet, all it takes is a few posts that garner outside interest and it will really skew your numbers.
Sorry Lord Bison, I haven't been checking in to read your inspired words of wisdom.
Mother Nature has dictated that North Idaho will go directly from freezing wet and cold to hot weather on a day by day basis.
This loyal minion is busy trying to dodge rain drops and plant a garden so that there will be some onions, carrot and potatoes to add to the stew pot.
Idaho Homesteader
The AR-15 might be a lot of things, but it isn't a "survival rifle."
Seeing as how I'm not going to war with anyone, I doubt I'll ever have need for a military carbine. I will, however, have need for a sporting arm or two and a sporting arm that can also be used for home defense would be a good idea. A shotgun with a couple of interchangeable barrels and a .22 will suit a hell of a lot of people just fine.
I stay away from all the military-ish stuff it makes you look like an idiot and screams para-military, which is a good way to get your fool self shot, and the sporting versions of everything work better anyway.
Ive been into firearms since I left the service back in 1983,...Ive owned H&K's CETME's GARANDS,ENFIELDs,...AK's...SKS's and other milsurp bullshit over the years.
Hey,..I loved my #3 Lithgow enfield,..but ammo was/is to fookin expensive for a marginal firearm.
My Garrand,..same shit!
I run SKS's and a couple of Mosin M-44's, and rim fire .22's plus 1 guage shotguns and .45 pistols.....the sks's are Chinese,..best you can get today.
The mosins?......their accuracy is from 200 meters out,...not under.
Yeah its a lot to operate,...but ive been at this for a while and have reduced it to just a few mouths to feed
Jim,..you are a fookin snob whos entire survival ideas are coming apart at the seams. Nothing you are doing is working yet you assail others for what they do,...you are a real piece of shit my "no water on your junk property friend".
Quit all the dribble and hassle of folks who are truly doing their calling for preps.
Good Post,...hair looking better,...get back to it!
Ok, I'll bite. I don't "love" the Mosin Nagant, but it's a diamond in the rough with cheap ammo to boot.
A few things;
1) Not sure if there are any cases of a MN blowing up for the reason you fear, which seems a bit illogical at this point.
2) Gunsmith is NOT needed to fit a scope mount, see jmeckscopemounts.com - yeah it's $92 for the see-thru version, but no gun smith and you still have iron sights. By the time the bolt is bent, the Mosin Nagant with scope mount will be about the same as a .303 with a scope mount, except that .303 mount won't be see-thru (usually).
3) .303 reloads coast more than surplus 7.62x54R in a spam can, and I'm not sure by what you mean about it taking up more room, can't take it with you. Taking reloading equipment seems like it would be more cumbersome. Reality is you can buy thousands of MN rounds for the price of hundreds of .303.
They're kind of ugly, but don't confuse that with dangerous or inaccurate. You ever (suppressed the illogical fear it'll blow up in your face and) fired one? They're fun.
The ammo cost advantage just can't be beat. A guy needing a cheap survival rifle will be MUCH better served with a MN and that cheap ammo, than a .303 and those ammo/brass prices.
And I like the .303, had a beautiful one for years, got it from my dad, belonged to his (from a catalog in the 60s for less than $20, as I recall). It was stolen. I moved on.
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